But at that same time Gnome’s was rock solid. These cards are still made for marketing displays and so on. Nvidia is the only consumer of EGLStreams, It is an official standard with one user. But it has only caused pain, And we will lose the most important feature of X11, network tranparancy. I have this PC configuration: Asus P8B75-V motherboard, Intel core i5-2320, Asus GeForce GTX 750 OC, 8GB RAM. So, if the most performant GPU developer wants to use EGLStream, then it might be a good idea to listen to them & follow suit, instead of coming up with bs stories about GBM being better. Wasn’t it nvidia with EGLStreams and Mesa with GBM? I think you’ve missed my point. It’s horror stories like this that keep me away from Desktop Linux BTW. I am gonna try to install NVIDIA drivers next. “6. Founded by farmers, ChopLocal features high quality meat products from family farmers and small butchers across the country. It actually does, you need to edit gdm settings files though. Nvidia knows more about high performance graphics than everyone that was involved in the Wayland collaboration. But Xorg works, doesn’t it? I would like Cinnamon to move from Xorg to Wayland fully such as KDE are doing with its desktop environment and if you accept this request then apps like steam would use the xorg compatibility like xwayland to run on cinnamon. It’s indicative of a Wayland issue though: User-friendly distros avoid Wayland like the plague because it isn’t well-supported by drivers, especially Nvidia (which again, is the only way for a mainstream user to get good graphics on Desktop Linux). It acts as a mediator between you and the system) which is forked from gnome-shell. That’s my concern. The transition to Wayland is taking far longer than it should, and a lot of important software simply isn’t ready yet. See The Real Story Behind Wayland and X – Daniel Stone (linux.conf.au 2013). National Technical University of Athens, Greece (10Gbps); DotSrc.org, Denmark (2x10Gbps); UNIXPeople.org, Germany (1Gbps); Tsinghua University TUNA Association (also through rsync), China (5Gbps); Artix Linux download server 1, USA Artix Linux download server 2, Germany Artix Linux download server 3, Germany If you prefer the bittorrent protocol, you can download our media from: There have been many other display systems that *were* conceived long before the Wayland protocol that should’ve been further developed. Because developers control the direction of the OS; and for developers “new and interesting” always beats “stable and useful (and boring)”. It seems that open source developers were fishing for leverage to gain more information about how Nvidia were using the API in order to better understand how to improve open source drivers on Nvidia hardware. Maybe the problem is nVidia using a proprietary protocol (GBM) for buffers instead of following the standard (EGLStreams). While I concur that nvidia’s drivers are far more performant than the open source drivers, we’ve got to be extremely careful drawing conclusions based on that. This could have resulted in a replacement display system already being fully functional & deployed by now.”. Mar 19, 2020 at 9:30 pm | Reply This is useful, but there are caveats. But software center provides much more clarity on this. Cinnamon uses the cinnamon shell ( Shell is the graphical user interface which you see. Wayland IS “X12”. Most Wayland compositors only work on systems using Kernel mode setting. If you are having an aged system, disabling some startup applications or switching to Xfce edition would help. I would like Cinnamon to move from Xorg to Wayland fully such as KDE are doing with its desktop environment and if you accept this request then apps like steam would use the xorg compatibility like xwayland to run on cinnamon. It was about your methodology for defending one over the other. There are many “small” standards that exist because people had no response to object. I’ve been meaning to ditch uTorrent and was looking for an alternative. Nvidia’s drivers literally cripple your monitor’s color gamut on Linux. I should re-read what I write before posting O:-). Well what can I say, you are still resorting to a logical fallacy. Yes. Canonical wasn’t lambasted for NIHing Wayland. Maybe it’s a Cinnamon thing? It might be useful to someone. There’s just so much that goes into this type of fundamental switch that it, in hindsight, it should have seemed obvious how long it would take. There is no easy way to restart Cinnamon. to other processes. Memory usage have slightly increased when compared with previous release. My point is that Nvidia drivers on Nvidia hardware out perform other vendor’s drivers on their own hardware. And some software like Zoom doesn’t really support Wayland without stipulations. X.org lasts me months without killing whatever I’m working on and I still don’t see any efforts toward adoption of a proper session recovery extension for Wayland.. …in the mean time, I’m working toward making more and more of my desktop weather a failure like that, either by moving to applications with a persistent backend and a separate frontend (eg. Cinnamon is often considered as user friendly for the beginner level of Linux users who have just migrated from Windows to Linux based operating system. While the world of Linux does offer tons of choice, it might get overwhelming at first. New AMD cards and future Intel cards could change this in a big way. The parties still have to agree to the treaty. It is a standard because no one objected. They mentioned that since 2019 they set a priority goal to adapt everything to support Wayland and it's "starting to pay off big time" now. 4. 1. Nvidia like it or not has been total ass with firmware access. Or the intel compiler & libaries intentionally taking inefficient code paths on AMD CPUs to make AMD’s CPUs perform worse running the same code. If I did not have a duel boot system I would overwrite my whole hard drive to get rid of 20 and go back to 19.3 I may try and do that anyway just to get rid of this. If you go back to the old Nvidia chipsets where Nouveau can in fact run power management the Nouveau driver is faster than the new closed source Nvidia drivers for the same card. (In essence, part of the reason KDE was reluctant to support it is that it brings back an element of the X11-era “nVidia’s binary driver internals can’t offer everything we want without falling off the fast path”. The biggest new feature in Linux Mint 20? GUIs ate pretty simmilar too. There is no guarantee the new code will ever ship, and except patents and research papers it remains mostly secret. At best he’s good at reporting new processors on the market. My point is that Nvidia has already proven that they’re more capable of creating a better software/hardware tech stack for graphics. When i drag windows around, it lags begind mouse pointer. Toggle it off using the same key combination. Aside from that, if you read the relevant KWin-related blogs, part of the problem with EGLStreams is that it’s like Chrome Extensions to GBM’s XUL extensions and doesn’t provide a way to request some of the guarantees that they configure GBM to provide. Cinnamon is a free and open-source desktop environment for the X Window System that derives from GNOME 3 but follows traditional desktop metaphor conventions. I don’t know what your interests are (it could be display subsystems are your thing) but for most people it doesn’t matter how things work as long they work. Nvidia was right about EGLStream. They were also wrong to withdraw their support of Mir by reversing their decision to provide graphic drivers for it. This much-awaited feature brings our Wayland session ever closer to parity with the X11 session. Re: 0.95.2 Fails to Load in Linux Mint 19.3, Cinnamon Post by xnview » Thu May 21, 2020 7:21 am dma_k wrote: ↑ Wed May 20, 2020 5:26 pm Will it make sense to add this dependency to DEB package control file? Intel has some very talented people. In addition to that, it seems that this is the perfect time for all other *nix platforms to break away & develop their own display system, because Wayland will most certainly be a pain for every *nix platform that isn’t Linux -and that’s if a fully functional Wayland implementation is ever even completed. My hope is that the Ubuntu and wider open source development communities work to improve fractional scaling support going forward and that those changes (especially performance wise) get pushed out to 20.04 LTS users in future. But Cinnamon seems to be a memory eater af a day of being active. For instance, Firefox, the default Linux Mint web browser supports video hardware acceleration in Wayland only. Mutter is a window manager initially designed and implemented for the X Window System, but then evolved to be a Wayland compositor. Once Wayland becomes the standard protocol and it’s clear that DE’s need to transition, I get the feeling that alot of these X11 DE’s will get left behind… You are judging X to be true based on Y without providing any evidence for Y to necessitate X. Of course, if you have a core i7 with 16 GB of RAM, this won’t matter. The welcome screen now asks for the favorite color of the user and whether user prefers a dark variant to select the preferred theme. Are you an incumbent? @etim , attempt to use htop or another monitoring utility to determine what is using all of your system resources, of that shows you nothing but things are still “hard” locking, start looking at video drivers. Cinnamon also offers the ability to set a custom shortcut for this: System Settings -> Keyboard -> Shortcuts -> Windows -> Toggle always on top. Nvidia was invited to participate and decided not. Also, providing Wayland as an option will be better as other desktops are maturing on Wayland and X.Org is moving to maintenance mode. Lets be clear, while its great that Mesa drivers exist, no one can say that they’re truly better than what GPU manufacturers can produce. This release is available in Cinnamon, Xfce and MATE editions and the following is a review of the Cinnamon edition. The X protocol had some shortcomings with supporting VSync properly and sometimes requires tweaking to get it working correctly. Linux Mint 20 comes with Cinnamon 4.6 with fractional scaling support. The student news site of Wayland High School. But it hurts my eyes on my FHD 15″ laptop screen which is a very capable screen quality and looks very sharp with Windows 10 125% scale. Hotels near Sockum Ridge County Park; Near Airports. Linux Mint 19 Cinnamon Review- ‘still the Best’, Free Torrent Leech Sites to Download without Torrent Client. There have been many other display systems that we conceived long before the Wayland protocol that should’ve been further developed. They merely used the Nouveau driver as an open source vehicle to work on a memory allocator that they intend to share. But it’s still quite a ways off. The ‘chromium-browser’ is an empty package and installing it using terminal doesn’t show any information regarding this. Most issues Wayland was trying to solve are already implemented in X via direct rendering. Gdebi, for manually installing .deb files got a new interface. I run 100% open-source software on my Windows (LibreOffice, OpenShot, Avidemux, VLC, MPC-HC, Firefox, Meld, WinMerge), with the exception of Nvidia 3D Vision Player, utorrent 2.2 (old habits die hard) and games, but when it comes to OSes, you need a PHB to say “we are going to Wayland in the next release and we will pour enough resources to make it happen, and any IHV who doesn’t follow along will not get their drivers signed”. With x 11, there was xfree86 then the xorg implementation. I updated to 20 two days ago from 19.3 and was it a huge mistake. Cinnamon. It has all the same features like DHT, LSD, PeX and default tracker lists to all new torrents without all the Adware from uTorrent. We may have … Before Nvidia locks out firmware access the Nouveau driver use to be inside 90 percent of the performance of the Nvidia closed source driver. Have suggested to a lot of friends that are non-techies/Windows users and they are pretty happy with this alternative. The guy claimed that GBM is superior to EGLStream. If you don't like your application menu in the lower left of your screen, you can move it. Cinnamon is a DE(Desktop Environment).DE is a collection of software, which collectively provides you a seamless Desktop experience. A lot of programs like shutter and chromium do not work in 20, and I have about 25 desktop errors that I have to try and fix if I can. This week we got tons and tons of stuff done, including window thumbnails on Wayland! I was not able to test this as only 100% and 200% was available in VirtualBox. Previously, if a system encountered a low-memory situation, it may have encountered heavy swap usage (aka swap thrashing)– sometimes resulting in the Workstation UI slowing down, or becoming unresponsive for periods of time.Fedora 32 Workstation now ships and enables EarlyOOM by default. What is Nvidia biggest problems with GBM. Software Manager: faster, sleeker, lighter It’s time to admit it: the X.Org Server is abandonware, X.Org Server 1.21 may very well prove to be an elusive release, The Real Story Behind Wayland and X – Daniel Stone (linux.conf.au 2013), https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver, https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=NVIDIA-Generic-Allocator-2019, https://github.com/NVIDIA/tegra-nouveau-rootfs, https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA4NjA, Cairo, Xlib, and the Shared Memory Extension, [Updated with response from Apple] Macs are a privacy nightmare. "Clean UI" is the primary reason people pick GNOME 3 over the competition. I looked into that once and, basically, GBM predates EGLStreams but it took a few years for the Mesa developers to realize that nVidia had put EGLStreams forward for de jure standardization in an attempt to deligitimize GBM already being a de facto standard. This might not be an issue for normal Linux Mint users as they might not be aware of display server they are using. Today's Posts; Mark Channels Read; Member List; Calendar; Forum; Software; Desktop Linux; If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. Home-made breads: - Amish White, Cinnamon Raisin, Wayland Sourdough, Wheat (50/50), Least Gluten Bread Served with our own jam or jelly! If you don't like the way your file manager organizes your documents, you can use a different one. Last time I’ve checked it, I had problems with redrawing frames in Firefox and D’n’D in Gnome (Archiver->Nautilus). Homemade Bread: Amish White, Asiago, Cinnamon Raisin, Wayland Sourdough, Wheat (50/50), Least Gluten Bread. >As for why Nvidia split their driver team in two, have you ever considered the idea that maybe they wanted to do a test to see just how far GBM could be extended in order to bring it up to speeds with their proprietary driver without completely stopping work on their proprietary driver (which is already known to be highest performing driver for their hardware)? This means that it is as extensible as X11, but since everything can be made obsolete, it is even more futureproof than X11 (which is very futureproof, as demonstrated by the extensions that allowed to fully replace the render engine and use composition). Now, if I could get Cinnamon under Wayland... level 2. But even in that case, Gnome Shell DOES support nVidia in Wayland. Network transparency outside corporate LANs is pretty much dead. Get Cinnamon 20.1.2. Same Nvidia chipsets today that don’t have have the firmware restriction Nouveau driver is faster than the Nvidia closed source driver for them(yes the cards are still made). One of my interests is 3D stereoscopy (no joke, old-timers here might remember me confessing the fact I have the last 3D Vision laptop ever made -an Alienware 880m- which I daily-drive sometimes), but I will stick to Windows for that particular hobby, don’t worry. I do not use chromium or chrome so I am good. This could have resulted in a replacement display system already being fully functional & deployed by now. I think people that were watching from a distance thought this would be a quick switch over, but most people that know about this stuff were saying 10 years to get to a pretty usable place. I use Mate. It was conceived to be a clean replacement for X11 which has more lines of code than the kernel itself. https://github.com/NVIDIA/tegra-nouveau-rootfs demetrioussharpe Standards adherence allows for interoperability and shared technology for X Window System desktops, with similar Wayland support being worked on. The point being performance deficits may have little to do with merits, skills, and qualifications of FOSS developers. A cinnamon desktop is a default desktop environment on Linux Mint. 2. Improved Out of Memory handling. Gnome is pretty much there with Wayland and KDE isn’t far behind. Fractional scaling support, and each monitor can be scaled differently. But as a reference implementation, it is quite simple and maybe ugly… just like X11 without window manager . Some of the best technology is a moving target. This page is powered by a knowledgeable community that helps you make an informed decision. FreeBSD seems for Linux from scratch - you setup applications what do you need and yourselves configure this application without nice GUI buns like Windows or Linux. :-O. it is funny that Ubuntu, one of the most user-friendly distro, uses Gnome shell, which can work with nVidia in Wayland. Below is the county’s final summary, posted Wednesday, Nov. 4, 2020, of contested races or millage questions. Linux Mint is still one of the best Linux distribution out there with an active community. Linux-firmware 1.187 and the Linux kernel 5.4. Don’t know what the others are complaining about, but I updated to 20 several days ago with no issues at all. As is the nature of such things, I’m sure that there’re many who would disagree with me on some or all of these points. March 16, 2020 Special Meeting Notice. I was using it years ago and it had some insane usability issues. Clarification: with proprietary drivers and acceleration. While the world of Linux does offer tons of choice, it might get overwhelming at first. Of course if lets say you want to run Nouveau fairly against Nvidia binary driver on x86 you need to go in and lock the gpu on its slowest clockspeed for both drivers. Election canvassers are set for a 1 p.m. Wednesday meeting, which will be livestreamed on the county’s YouTube channel. There is: Weston. In the old days the widget library sent high-level commands like “paint a line here”, “fill this rectangle/triangle/whatever with this color”, “write this text with this font that you already have in the X server here”… but today all that work is done by the application, and a whole “bitmap” is sent to the X server using shared memory. Of course that underestimates how much Nvidia wants to market split to make money. Main highlight of Linux Mint 20 is the file transfer application called Warpinator. Even if there were no further releases (there will be, the author of the article is just trying to get some publicity) it is still extremely competitive from the users’ point of view. There are a few major mistakes here. Sooner or later, Wayland will be almost feature complete and almost supported by all software and drivers; and when Wayland reaches that stage these people will decide to switch to something else (and abandon Wayland). ... 2011 - 2020 Manjaro Linux. Consider microsoft deliberately writing code to break competing products even though they were compatible. Nouveau in mesa is in fact one of Nvidia own drivers. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. Why is Nouveau not the supported driver for x86 platforms simple it will screw up their market separation. It’s more that there’s no release manager, so it’s looking like it’s stuck in a DOSBox-like state where the last released version is ancient and anyone who needs more can build a nightly. If you’d like to learn more about the architecture behind this change, check out the X11 and Wayland talk at the XDC 2020 conference from Steve Pronovost. Because design by committee isn’t always the best way to work. If you want to use a remote session, you can’t use shared memory, which means sending bitmaps over and over again over the network… which is exactly what VNC or Teamviewer already does, but with greater efficiency because they can send “blurred, quick versions” of the picture, and then refine them when the network is slow. Maybe I will try Mint again when it supports Wayland to see if it improves scaling. When I upgrade to Fedora 33 I’ll be interested to try out Gnome 3.38 and see how it feels compared to 3.36 which was already very solid under Wayland. Do take note of that generic allocator from 2019 this was basically taking the best bits Nvidia was getting from EGLStream and porting it to a GBM solution. So unless you know what you are doing you are not using consumer cards with VM passthrough. Tegra chips don’t have a closed source driver from Nvidia any more. As I said, Wayland is only a protocol, not a program, so it doesn’t matter. @etim , attempt to use htop or another monitoring utility to determine what is using all of your system resources, of that shows you nothing but things are … However, the most high performance GPU manufacturer in existence today wanted to go with EGLStream. 2020 is here I think some of you might have boarded the Linux train in the recent past. It is still experimental software and we only hear about it so much is because it is being developed in the open. I’ve never had a window manager that could last more than a few weeks without dying or needing a forced restart, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen a compositor last more than two or three weeks of uptime without going bad. This version is the worse version of mint that I have seen in a long time. A display server using the Wayland protocol is called a Wayland compositor, because it additionally performs the task of a compositing window manager.. And no, I won’t install Desktop Linux just so I can see how cool the icons are, been there, done that. I claimed that EGLStreams is a more locked down API which, like with VSync on X11, forces you to live with quirks of the nVidia binary driver’s internal architecture. 3. Linux desktop environments are the graphical interfaces used to interact with the operating system. That is not the story. @Alfman you’re further missing my point about performance. How is it possible, that Fedora works just fain on the new Thinkpads? Display Settings has an option to set the refresh rate. Cinnamon is a free and open-source desktop environment for the X Window System that derives from GNOME 3 but follows traditional desktop metaphor conventions. The fact that nvidia has the fastest drivers for it’s own hardware is not surprising and does not prove in any factual sense that another project couldn’t perform just as well or even better with the inside information that nvidia has about it’s own hardware. March 16, 2020 Special Meeting Notice. If EGLStreams was a drop in replacement there would not be an issue, but it is not. KDE's Plasma 5.20 is now available, bringing a bunch of refinements as well as some larger features.Some of the KDE Plasma 5.20 highlights include (via Phoronix): -Numerous fixes to the KWin window manager / compositor including a number of Wayland fixes. Inclusion of utilities like Timeshift and System Reports makes the life of users ease. Linux Mint is an elegant, easy to use, up to date and comfortable GNU/Linux desktop distribution. I ‘ve been hearing “Wayland is coming” for the last 8 years (first stable was released in 2012), and in the meantime development time is split between X.org and Wayland (as if there wasn’t enough developer starvation for anything Desktop-related on Linux). Your methodology is flawed and I gave other examples to highlight why it’s flawed. Welcome to Manjaro Linux. Maintaining stuff is not very profitable for DEVs, although I appreciate it can be very very profitable for a corporation, what little maintaining stuff pays is often spread across very few with most effectively dealt out of the game. There are options to install drivers and setup system snapshots, which will definitely help newcomers. It terribly slows down my computer and I need to restart the computer. Things are not going well…. This much-awaited feature brings our Wayland session ever closer to parity with the X11 session. In the end, the Wayland devs decided not to start over with EGLStreams. Summary: Cinnamon Mellema's birthday is 12/06/1971 and is 48 years old. With Ubuntu 21.04 also possibly defaulting to Wayland for its GNOME session, the KDE Wayland support getting squared away, and other advancements continuing, X.Org Server 1.21 may very well prove to be an elusive release.
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